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Elrick
Galactic Member



USA
5831 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2009 :  4:30:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Elrick's Homepage Send Elrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, deep subject. I try not to debate the speed of light thing because there are just too many unknowns and we currently have to work from mostly Einsteins theories, which are flawed or incomplete. At times, even he was unsure of his own theories. Very soon somebody else will come along and make a new theory or discovery, replacing Eistein's just as Newton before him. We often think of man's technology as being the height of technology but it is obviously not. Earth technology = primative technology. Science is still very very young on this planet and full of problems that have yet to be worked out. There are many contenders currently in the race for the next great revolutionary theories. The 11-dimensional universe, a fabric of space and time that's not smooth and continuous, universal "constants" that vary over space and time but remain fixed in a 5th dimension, etc (sorry, some of the theories have no real names yet)...all could prove revoltutionary. We have yet to discover that "Theory of everything" that would tie so much of it all together. So I would have to agree with the notion that we don't yet know what is possible. But as Rob also pointed out, we have to currently go by what is humanly possible based on our current level of science and technology. Personally I think Tesla smoked Einstein but it's sort of like camparing apples to oranges.




"For the devout believer, no evidence is necessary. For the devout skeptic, no evidence will suffice."

Edited by - Elrick on 08/29/2009 4:42:28 PM
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Rob Mc
Galactic Member



Ireland
602 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2009 :  5:31:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Dennis

Did you fall asleep in science class? Everything, EVERYTHING has mass. Even singularities have mass. To exist is to have mass. And when things move, they don't get heavier, they just gain more inertia (resistance to change). What makes you think that traveling at the speed of light somehow causes you to have to have an "infinite" amount of energy? The speed of light is not infinite, it is a set number, so why would an object traveling at the speed of light need an infinite source of energy?

The state is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." ~ Thomas Jefferson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you want peace prepare for war." ~ Vegetius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may stand alone.....but we stand alone together" ~ Brandon Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My MSN messenger: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
My email address: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com



What? Photons don't have mass!! and haven't you ever heard of Einstein? and i didn't say it has infinite energy i said it needs infinite energy to move. Here read this i couldnt be bothered explaining it to you.

You must be logged in to see this link.



We are the resistance!
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calperia
Galactic Member



USA
1571 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2009 :  9:00:23 PM  Show Profile Send calperia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, Guys...

You're discussing a topic that even the experts can't agree on...So, please, don't pull out the old Laser Transducers and start firing at each other...

Speed-of-light travel...transwarp engines...interdimensional corridors... As El & Brandon both explained, we are still in our scientific infancy here on this little blue-and-green orb. Many things that seem impossible are simply far out of our grasp right now...but that doesn't mean that those things do not exist somewhere else in this vast universe. As a matter of fact, I'll wager that they do!

We're here at this forum to freely exchange ideas; to discuss topics relating to "Aliens & UFOs" (among other things ), and we usually have a great time of it. We don't always agree, but we always strive to be civil and open-minded.

That's what makes this forum such a great one, and a pleasure to be a part of.

With that in mind, let's sallie forth and have a grand discussion!

Buckyballs, anyone?

Your Pal,
Cal


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Brandon Dennis
Galactic Member



USA
1511 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2009 :  11:11:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lawl, Rob, you directly quoted sentences from wikipedia and passed it off as your own comments. Nice job.

Photons have mass. Mass means that an object is occupying space. Logically, if something isn't occupying space, then it doesn't exist.

On a side note, I never said that you said that it has an infinite amount of energy. I said "What makes you think that traveling at the speed of light somehow causes you to have to have an "infinite" amount of energy?"

Einstein was brilliant, I'm not denying that. He wasn't perfect, though, and definitely not omnipotent. We've made great strides in our understanding of how the world works since Einstein's day. To believe something simply because Einstein said it (or even worse simply because you read it on Wikipedia), is clearly not thinking for yourself. Use your logic, man.

I apologize to the forums at large, here, if I'm causing a disruption. It just immensely pisses me off when people don't think for themselves.

The state is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." ~ Thomas Jefferson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you want peace prepare for war." ~ Vegetius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may stand alone.....but we stand alone together" ~ Brandon Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My MSN messenger: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
My email address: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
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Rob Mc
Galactic Member



Ireland
602 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  10:06:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Dennis

Lawl, Rob, you directly quoted sentences from wikipedia and passed it off as your own comments. Nice job.

Photons have mass. Mass means that an object is occupying space. Logically, if something isn't occupying space, then it doesn't exist.

On a side note, I never said that you said that it has an infinite amount of energy. I said "What makes you think that traveling at the speed of light somehow causes you to have to have an "infinite" amount of energy?"

Einstein was brilliant, I'm not denying that. He wasn't perfect, though, and definitely not omnipotent. We've made great strides in our understanding of how the world works since Einstein's day. To believe something simply because Einstein said it (or even worse simply because you read it on Wikipedia), is clearly not thinking for yourself. Use your logic, man.

I apologize to the forums at large, here, if I'm causing a disruption. It just immensely pisses me off when people don't think for themselves.

The state is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." ~ Thomas Jefferson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you want peace prepare for war." ~ Vegetius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may stand alone.....but we stand alone together" ~ Brandon Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------http://userpages.bright.net/~phobia/main.htm
My MSN messenger: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
My email address: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com



Never said it was my own work......

And ill say it once again photons have no mass.

You must be logged in to see this link.

And i actualy have no idea what your talking about anymore...


We are the resistance!

Edited by - Rob Mc on 08/30/2009 10:07:20 AM
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Brandon Dennis
Galactic Member



USA
1511 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:52:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How do you not know what I'm talking about?

You must be logged in to see this link.
"No, photons do not have mass, but they do have momentum."

To have momentum is basically to have acceleration + inertia (mass x velocity). You can't have momentum if the object doesn't have mass. It's a very, very, very, very small amount of mass (compared to us, anyway), but it does have mass. I don't care what all this **** says on the Internet. Many of these things that I read about matter is completely retarded. It's like people don't actually use their brains anymore. You know the worst part? That's a NASA website. I hate this world.

The state is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." ~ Thomas Jefferson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you want peace prepare for war." ~ Vegetius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may stand alone.....but we stand alone together" ~ Brandon Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My MSN messenger: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
My email address: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
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Rob Mc
Galactic Member



Ireland
602 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  1:09:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only reason you hate the world is cos you see the negative in everything, i'm sure not everything the goverments of this world have done have been for the wrong reasons, and im sure not everything you read on this site is true, maybe nasa isnt hiding anything, who are we to say?

I say we are very lucky, we are living in possibly the most important era of human history, we are on the cusp of space travel, we have more information on our lap then we thought was ever possible, we are alive in a time were the fossil fuel crisis looms ever closer and we are gonna shape how this planet moves forward. I for one am very excited about future, and i believe that if aliens do exist we will find out in our lifetime. so who cares if the human race is f**ked up? count yourself lucky your not one of the robots who don't discover anything until their goverment says its fit for their consumption.

We are the resistance!
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calperia
Galactic Member



USA
1571 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  4:38:10 PM  Show Profile Send calperia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, Rob...

I don't know how old you are (your profile doesn't indicate your age), but I happen to know that Brandon is 16 years old, and he's one of the most articulate, thoughtful, intelligent 16-year-olds I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. He doesn't see only the negative in the world, but neither is he blind to what IS there.

As I said before, this forum is a place where people can come and share ideas and have interesting conversations, without the misbehavior that goes on at other forums. That's why I suggested that you guys put your ray guns away and stop zapping each other: No need for it here, if we all strive to get along and be considerate of one another.

Brandon was simply attempting to explain that protons have mass, and--guess what?--PROTONS HAVE MASS. It is 1.6726 x 10 (-27) kg or a little over 1800 times the mass of an electron. I've spent a lot of time studying physics, especially quantum physics. I am fascinated by subatomic particles, and the ways they behave at the quantum level.

Now that we've settled the question, why don't you two shake hands and try to get along? Brandon is a fine young fellow and has added a lot to the forum while he's been here.

I don't know you well enough, Rob, to discern just what your motives are, but I hope you are a genuine seeker of the truth, and an open-minded individual. If you are, you will find a lot of kindred souls here, and also you will find good friends, who will stand by you through thick and thin.

Here's to peaceful co-existence!

Cal

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Brandon Dennis
Galactic Member



USA
1511 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  4:58:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aww, shucks, Cal.

I need to send you some chocolates.

I have no problem with putting away my ray gun, as it were, and being friends, Rob.

The state is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." ~ Thomas Jefferson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you want peace prepare for war." ~ Vegetius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may stand alone.....but we stand alone together" ~ Brandon Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My MSN messenger: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
My email address: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
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calperia
Galactic Member



USA
1571 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  5:11:17 PM  Show Profile Send calperia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gee, Brandon...

Chocolate is my favorite food group, LOL! But, naw...you don't need to send me anything. I writeth from me heart, 'tis all!

But, good overture on the hand held out to Rob. Now it's up to him...

Your Pal,
Cal
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Daan
Galactic Member



Belgium
1552 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  5:24:40 PM  Show Profile Send Daan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want some chocolate as well D:

As a Belgian, I eat chocolate (almost :D) daily so I don't know if I could live without it, hehehe

"Don't challenge the world to change. Challenge yourself to change the world." - Brandon Dennis

Edited by - Daan on 08/31/2009 08:26:45 AM
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Rob Mc
Galactic Member



Ireland
602 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  5:51:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no problem with Brandon at all, i think hes a cool guy but too be honest i havent exactly felt welcome here, but i know that all of ye have been here a lot longer than me and are more likely to back eachother up, but it just seems that anything i ever bring to the table is wrong, and that ye have already discovered the "truth" and thats that, just because i don't believe that goverments are controlling the weather doesn't mean that im closed minded and should broadin my horizons, im still open to the idea that it could be real.

And on the whole photon thing, iv been told my whole life that photons have no mass, in school by people around me and even the internet so don't blame me for being wrong, apparently half the world is wrong.

Edit: i believe i found are communication breakdown, a photon has 0 rest mass. But a photon is never at rest.


We are the resistance!

Edited by - Rob Mc on 08/30/2009 5:58:07 PM
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  6:18:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know nothing about protons and electrons and stuff of that nature but
how would anyone know that a proton has 0 mass at rest if it never
rests? Maybe it's a stupid question but i was curious about it.

------------------------------------------------------------




You Are A Spirit Having A Human Experience!
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Brandon Dennis
Galactic Member



USA
1511 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  6:40:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exactly H/A lol. Thanks for calming down with me, Rob. Much appreciated. Sorry that you haven't felt welcome around here. You're right in that we've all been here for years and we've just been through so many discussions about so many different topics. Hopefully we can learn to include you into our big, happy family.

As far as I know, many of these ideas about subatomic particles are formulated based on calculations that have been made over the years, rather than actual observations. Even if the photon could rest, I don't see how it's possible for anything to have 0 mass. Maybe someone (*hint* *hint* Cal *cough* *cough*) could explain it to me?

The state is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." ~ Thomas Jefferson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you want peace prepare for war." ~ Vegetius
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may stand alone.....but we stand alone together" ~ Brandon Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My MSN messenger: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
My email address: Mr.BrandonDennis@gmail.com
Go to Top of Page

calperia
Galactic Member



USA
1571 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2009 :  7:36:37 PM  Show Profile Send calperia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, Rob,

That goes for me, too. We are not snobbish folk here. As a matter of fact, we were ALL new here at some point, but most of us "regulars" have been around for years and have been through a lot together. So, yes, you are right--we DO tend to "watch each other's backs," as it were. But no offense meant to you.

We certainly don't want you to feel unwelcome, so on behalf of us all:

"WELCOME TO THE FORUM, ROB!!!"

We hope your time here will be as rewarding for you as it has been for all of us.

Of course, there WILL be times when ideas will clash a bit, but--hey!--that's okay. The main thing is to keep it civil, and, if we must, just learn to "agree to disagree."

Not one of us knows it all, and we know we don't know it all (does that make sense? ), but we are enjoying the journey to "Knowing As Much As We Can"--and happily speculating on the rest, LOL!

So, again, welcome, Rob, and feel free to post & reply as much as you can. Don't give another thought to the proton thing: someday we may discover that protons aren't real at all...Heck, we may even discover that reality isn't real at all! (Now wouldn't that be a hoot! )

Take care and have a great week!

Your Pal,
Cal
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