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Elrick
Galactic Member



USA
5831 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  09:36:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit Elrick's Homepage Send Elrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh no, no worries Grey. Sorry to gang up on you, lol. America works the way of public approval, not necessarily your country. That is just how we do it. It is all political in a sense. If they can't win public approval then they just lie some more. Almost every war america has gotten into over the last century is connected to a false flag event that caused public outcry and justified our involvement in the wars.

I am not debating who did it. I do not know who did it. There are several suspects but I cannot prove or disprove anything. Whether it was government or terrorists or both, does not really matter yet. We are not to that point yet. We do not have enough information to know who all was involved. What I am focusing on is the actual buildings, what there is actual footage of. They had help coming down. Buildings are not that fragile. I do not know about planes being controlled from building 7. I suppose that is possible. We have had the remote technology for a bit now. But what we do know is that one of the biggest scandels of the past century (ENRON) was housed in building 7 as well as a lot of other stuff. Supposedly after the attack, the enron case disappeared and you never heard any more about it. Have you ever seen "any" type of building fall that fast without being demolished? I have not and I have looked. It didn't even matter if I factored in the steel or not, same result either way. So if I am understanding this correctly, you side with the "non-demolition" theories due to the implications of who was responsible if you were to side with the demolished theory. Did I understand it correctly? If I am mistaken, then please point out the flaw. If I am correct then you are allowing the "implications" to determine your possition on this subject. But in all honestly, the buildings could have had help coming down and still involve terrorists. We do not know. But we do know that buildings do not fall down that easily. Collapsing is one thing, but being reduced to small rubble in seconds is quite another. I do not remember the exact numbers but wasn't it something like a rate of 8 to 10 floors per second that had to drop for the towers to come down that fast? You are breaking all sorts of physics rules by trying to make that appear as natural. It is just way too fast to be a natural collapse (and way too perfect, as natural collapses are quite slow and sloppy).

I have seen the footage of the person H/A talks about. I do not remember which movie it is in though. Maybe he does. A lot of people were reporting explosions aside from the initial plane crashes. I bet this thread has the footage somewhere in one of the videos.

So....is the following correct?

Natural collapse = terrorists
Demolition = inside government job

...is that how you sort of see it?


"For the devout believer, no evidence is necessary. For the devout skeptic, no evidence will suffice."

Edited by - Elrick on 03/20/2010 09:54:50 AM
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  1:17:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah Grey. I didn't mean for this to sound like i was ganging up
on you. If it came out that way then i apologize.

I couldn't find the video i was referring to but i did find one that
talks about the same issues about the basement explosions and the lobby.

New William Rodriguez support story Lenght 7:53
You must be logged in to see this link.

9/11: Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings! Lenght 10:22
You must be logged in to see this link.

If you haven't research 9-11 yet, here are a few video's to get
you started. Of coarse, there are many more video's out there.
Some talking about the collapses of the towers and some trying to
debunk the stories already out there. I guess it's up to the
individual as to what they want to believe.

911 Loose Change (full-length) Lenght 1:19:00
You must be logged in to see this link.

Loose Change 2nd Edition (Full) Lenght 1:29:23
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Loose Change Final Cut Part 2 Lenght 1:04:28
You must be logged in to see this link.

------------------------------------------------------------




You Are A Spirit Having A Human Experience!
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Grey
Galactic Member



Spain
646 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  2:29:19 PM  Show Profile Send Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't worry 'bout the ganging up comment, it was just a throwaway comment.

It isn't really the implications, it's just that I don't know why the government would invade Afganistan apart from the "war on terror" There's no oil in Afghanistan as there is in Iraq, so I don't know why else they would. I wouldn't put it past any government, but I don't believe it was a false-flag operation in this case.

Thanks for the videos H/A, I'll research into it more when I can.

Could it possibly be that there were explosives in the tower anyway, and it was brought down as an emergency measure so it wouldn't destroy any other buildings when falling? I'm sorry if I cause any offense with that theory, I would never mean to.

"Even though you fool your soul, your conscience will be mine."
---------------------------------------------------------
"And all, but Lust, is turned to dust
In Humanity's machine."
-Oscar Wilde, The ballad of Reading Gaol.
---------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall." - Che Guevara.
---------------------------------------------------------
"As long as I breathe I hope. As long as I breathe I shall fight for the future." -Leon Trotsky
---------------------------------------------------------
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde.
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Daan
Galactic Member



Belgium
1552 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  3:09:55 PM  Show Profile Send Daan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe they aren't out of resources but simply territory/threatening other countries.

"Don't challenge the world to change. Challenge yourself to change the world." - Brandon Dennis
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Grey
Galactic Member



Spain
646 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  3:17:59 PM  Show Profile Send Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All they'd be doing then is making more enemies, so it doesn't add up.

"Even though you fool your soul, your conscience will be mine."
---------------------------------------------------------
"And all, but Lust, is turned to dust
In Humanity's machine."
-Oscar Wilde, The ballad of Reading Gaol.
---------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall." - Che Guevara.
---------------------------------------------------------
"As long as I breathe I hope. As long as I breathe I shall fight for the future." -Leon Trotsky
---------------------------------------------------------
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde.
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Elrick
Galactic Member



USA
5831 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  3:59:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Elrick's Homepage Send Elrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Consider this....You mentioned Iraq and Afganistan in trying to conclude the true reasons for war or invading these countries, and how this lack of "sense" of the situation is what hinders your observations/conclussions. We invaded Iraq, but none of the hijackers were from Iraq so why did we hit there? Most of the Hijackers were from Saudi Arabia but you did not see us hit there. They are our buddies or something like that. It is not like any of it really makes sense to begin with. But what I am trying to stress is that your ability to reason or understand the purpose of such events should have no factor on your observations. That is letting your lack of understanding, paint the event. We should not fully understand their reasons because we should not know them...yet. Because something does not make sense to you or I, should not be the deciding factor that effects our observations. But we do this all of the time in many areas. It is another hindrence to true understanding and learning. Humans on this planet have so very far to go yet. Nobody wants to take the time to try to understand the human condition and how to improve on it...but I am getting off subject again.

You pose an interesting question as to whether the buildings could have had explosives inside for emergency measures. Well, I think you would be breaking all sorts of code violations to start with. Secondly, if there was ever a malfunction or accident and one of the explosives was set off, there would be big trouble. It is an interesting theory though. I think technology was used that we are unaware of, like thermate paint, EMP or scaler weapons. I do not know the real reasons the U.S. would want access to these other countries and it is likely that they will not tell me, lol. That is something you are not supposed to know, hehe. Perhaps it is to secure stargates...perhaps it is to set up territories we control in certain regions. Perhaps it gets us in and allows us to set up our own government or influence a change in their government that we favor. I really do not know. Could be a number of reasons that we are not even aware of.

But regardless, that should have no influences on our observations/conclussions. That is still allowing what you believe or can reason, to effect what you see. That is not how to learn something new. It is similar to the notion of gravity verses people living on the bottom on the Earth. For a very long time, few would accept that people lived on the underside of the planet. Nobody could make sense of such a thing because there was no knowledge of gravity yet. People assumed it was impossible because the people would fall off. Introduce gravity into the equation and suddenly everything makes sense again. But before the knowledge of gravity, it was an impossibility in the minds of men. People had been living on the underside for always yet they might not have believed you had you tried to convince them of it.

I hope I am not being offensive. Sometimes I cannot predict how something will be read. At least all 3 of us have expressed concern for the feelings of the other so I think we will be ok as long as nobody starts name-calling, lol. I do not think we have ever really had too much of a problem with that though. Most of you guys have been pretty mature, more than myself at times.



"For the devout believer, no evidence is necessary. For the devout skeptic, no evidence will suffice."

Edited by - Elrick on 03/20/2010 4:37:02 PM
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  4:04:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Afghanistan was just a jumping point or excuse to get into the middle
east. The real goal was Iraq the whole time. I've heard many reasons
why iraq was chosen. Some to include, for their oil, to take control
of a supposed star gate that is there and a few others.

Afghanistan was chosen to put in an oil pipeline. I forget where it
starts from and stops at. You'll have to research that done.

Then you have the shadow government that is there to protect the
poppy fields (opium) so that they can sell it to keep their black
projects running.



------------------------------------------------------------




You Are A Spirit Having A Human Experience!
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Elrick
Galactic Member



USA
5831 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  4:07:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Elrick's Homepage Send Elrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have you guys read this before? I do not know where it originates from.


------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?

A: Because they had weapons of mass destruction, son.

Q: But the inspectors didn't find any weapons of mass destruction.

A: That's because the Iraqis were hiding them.

Q: And that's why we invaded Iraq?

A: Yep. Invasions always work better than inspections.

Q: But after we invaded them, we STILL didn't find any weapons of
mass destruction, did we?

A: That's because the weapons are so well hidden. Don't worry, we'll find something, probably right before the 2004 election.

Q: Why did Iraq want all those weapons of mass destruction?

A: To use them in a war, silly.

Q: I'm confused. If they had all those weapons that they planned to use in a war,
then why didn't they use any of those weapons when we went to war with them?

A: Well, obviously they didn 't want anyone to know they had those weapons
so they chose to die by the thousands rather than defend themselves.

Q: That doesn't make sense Daddy. Why would they choose to die if they had
all those big weapons to fight us back with?

A: It's a different culture. It's not supposed to make sense.

Q: I don't know about you, but I don't think they had any of those weapons
our government said they did.

A: Well, you know, it doesn't matter whether or not they had those weapons.
We had another good reason to invade them anyway.

Q: And what was that?

A: Even if Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Saddam Hussein
was cruel dictator, which is another good reason to invade another country.

Q: Why? What does a cruel dictator do that makes it OK to invade his country?

A: Well!, f or one thing, he tortured his own people.

Q: Kind of like what they do in China?

A: Don't go comparing China to Iraq. China is a good economic competitor,
where millions of people work for slave wages in sweatshops to make
U.S. corporations richer.

Q: So if a country lets its people be exploited for American corporate gain,
it's a good country, even if that country tortures people?

A: Right.

Q: Why were people in Iraq being tortured?

A: For political crimes, mostly, like criticizing the government. People who
criticized the government in Iraq were sent to prison and tortured.

Q: Isn't that exactly what happens in China?

A: I told you, China is different.

Q: What's the difference between China and Iraq?

A: Well, for one thing, Iraq was ruled by the Ba'ath party, while China is Communist.

Q: Didn't you once tell me Communists were bad?

A: No, just Cuban Communists are bad.

Q: How are the Cuban Communists bad?

A: Well, for one thing, people who criticize the government in Cuba are
sent to prison and tortured.

Q: Like in Iraq?

A: Exactly.

Q: And like in China, too?

A: I told you, China's a good economic competitor. Cuba, on the other hand, is not.

Q: How come Cuba isn't a good economic competitor?

A: Well, you see, back in the early 1960s, our government passed some laws
that made it illegal for Americans to trade or do any business with Cuba
until they stopped being Communists and started being capitalists like us.

Q: But if we got rid of those laws, opened up trade with Cuba, and started
doing business with them, wouldn't that help the Cubans become capitalist's?

A: Don't be a smart-ass.

Q: I didn't think I was being one.

A: Well, anyway, they also don't have freedom of religion in Cuba.

Q: Kind of like China and the Falun Gong movement?

A: I told you, stop saying bad things about China. Anyway, Saddam Hussein
came to power through a military coup, so he's not really a legitimate leader anyway.

Q: What's a military coup?

A: That's when a military general takes over the government of a country
by force, instead of holding free elections like we do in the United States.

Q: Didn't the ruler of Pakistan come to power by a military coup?

A: You mean General Pervez Musharraf? Uh, yeah, he did, but Pakistan is our friend.

Q: Why is Pakistan our friend if their leader is illegitimate?

A: I never said Pervez Musharraf was illegitimate .

Q: Didn't you just say a military general who comes to power by forcibly
overthrowing the legitimate government of a nation is an illegitimate leader?

A: Only Saddam Hussein. Pervez Musharraf is our friend, because he
helped us invade Afghanistan.

Q: Why did we invade Afghanistan?

A: Because of what they did to us on September 11th.

Q: What did Afghanistan do to us on September 11th?

A: Well, on September 11th, nineteen men. Fifteen of them Saudi Arabians.
hijacked four airplanes and flew three of them into buildings,
killing over 3,000 Americans.

Q: So how did Afghanistan figure into all that?

A: Afghanistan was where those bad men trained, under the oppressive
rule of the Taliban.

Q: Aren't the Taliban those bad radical Islamics who chopped off people's
heads and hands?!

A: Yes, that's exactly who they were. Not only did they chop off people's
heads and hands, but they oppressed women, too.

Q: Didn't the Bush administration give the Taliban 43 million dollars back in May of 2001?

A: Yes, but that money was a reward because they did such a good job fighting drugs.

Q: Fighting drugs?

A: Yes, the Taliban were very helpful in stopping people from growing opium poppies.

Q: How did they do such a good job?

A: Simple. If people were caught growing opium poppies, the Taliban would
have their hands and heads cut off.

Q: So, when the Taliban cut off people's heads and hands for growing flowers,
that was OK, but not if they cut people's heads and hands off for other reasons?

A: Yes. It's OK with us if radical Islamic fundamentalists cut off people's hands
for growing flowers, but it's cruel if they cut
off people's hands for stealing bread.

Q: Don't they also cut off people's hands and heads in Saudi Arabia?

A: That's different. Afghanistan was ruled by a tyrannical patriarchy
that oppressed women and forced them to wear burqas whenever
they were in public, with death by stoning as the penalty for women
who did not comply.

Q: Don't Saudi women have to wear burqas in public, too?

A: No, Saudi women merely wear a traditional Islamic body covering.

Q: What's the difference?

A: The traditional Islamic covering worn by Saudi women is a modest
yet fashionable garment that covers all of a woman's body except for her
eyes and fingers. The burqa, on the other hand, is an evil tool of patriarchal
oppression that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers.

Q: It sounds like the same thing with a different name.

A: Now, don't go comparing Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are our friends.

Q: But I thought you said 15 of the 19 hijackers on September 11th
were from Saudi Arabia.

A: Yes, but they trained in Afghanistan.

Q: Who trained them?

A: A very bad man named Osama bin Laden.

Q: Was he from Afghanistan?

A: Uh, no, he was from Saudi Arabia too. But he was a bad man, a very bad man.

Q: I seem to recall he was our friend once.

A: Only when we helped him and the mujahadeen repel the Soviet invasion
of Afghanistan back in the 1980s.

Q: Who are the Soviets? Was that the Evil Communist Empire Ronald Reagan
talked about?

A: There are no more Soviets. The Soviet Union broke up in 1990 or thereabouts!,
and now they have elections and capitalism like us. We call them Russians now.

Q: So the Soviets ? I mean, the Russians ? are now our friends?

A: Well, not really. You see, they were our friends for many years after
they stopped being Soviets, but then they decided not to support our
invasion of Iraq, so we're mad at them now. We're also mad at the French
and the Germans because they didn't help us invade Iraq either.

Q: So the French and Germans are evil, too?

A: Not exactly evil, but just bad enough that we had to rename French fries
and French toast to Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast.

Q: Do we always rename foods whenever another country doesn't do what
we want them to do?

A: No, we just do that to our friends. Our enemies, we invade.

Q: But wasn't Iraq one of our friends back in the 1980s! ?

A: Well, yeah. For a while.

Q: Was Saddam Hussein ruler of Iraq back then?

A: Yes, but at the time he was fighting against Iran, which made him
our friend, temporarily.

Q: Why did that make him our friend?

A: Because at that time, Iran was our enemy.

Q: Isn't that when he gassed the Kurds?

A: Yeah, but since he was fighting against Iran at the time, we looked
the other way, to show him we were his friend.

Q: So anyone who fights against one of our enemies automatically becomes our friend?

A: Most of the time, yes.

Q: And anyone who fights against one of our friends is automatically an enemy?

A: Sometimes that's true, too. However, if American corporations can profit by selling weapons to both sides at the same time, all the better.

Q: Why?

A: Because war is good for the economy, which means war is good for America.
Also, since God is on America's side, anyone who opposes war is a godless
un-American Communist. Do you understand now why we attacked Iraq?

Q: I think so. We attacked them because God wanted us to, right?

A: Yes.

Q: But how did we know God wanted us to attack Iraq?

A: Well, you see, God personally speaks to George W. Bush and tells him what to do.

Q: So basically, what you're saying is that we attacked Iraq because
George W. Bush hears voices in his head?

A. Yes! You finally understand how the real world works. Now close your eyes,
make yourself comfortable, and go to sleep. Good night.

Q: Good night, Daddy.


-------------------------------------------------------------

"For the devout believer, no evidence is necessary. For the devout skeptic, no evidence will suffice."
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Grey
Galactic Member



Spain
646 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  6:25:22 PM  Show Profile Send Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"none of the hijackers were from Iraq so why did we hit there?"

I see it as the governments seeing an opportunity to seize oil, nothing else.

"But what I am trying to stress is that your ability to reason or understand the purpose of such events should have no factor on your observations."

I think that you should always use reasoning in your viewpoints, rather than blind belief.

Can someone tell me what a "scaler weapon" is?

Also, Elrick, about that Q&A story you posted, it's so sad, but so true.

"Even though you fool your soul, your conscience will be mine."
---------------------------------------------------------
"And all, but Lust, is turned to dust
In Humanity's machine."
-Oscar Wilde, The ballad of Reading Gaol.
---------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall." - Che Guevara.
---------------------------------------------------------
"As long as I breathe I hope. As long as I breathe I shall fight for the future." -Leon Trotsky
---------------------------------------------------------
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde.
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  8:04:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can believe anything you want to Grey. This is your choice and
your right. I don't have any problem with that.

The thing is, unless you do your own research, you will never believe
in much of what any one says about 9-11 or the wars on the (big lie
terrorism).

It great though that you have a mind of your own. Don't let any one
change that about you.


------------------------------------------------------------




You Are A Spirit Having A Human Experience!
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2010 :  8:18:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I forgot to mention the scaler weapon thing.

I think when people talk about scaler weapons, they are really
talking about project HAARP.

Project HAARP puts out what is called scaler waves or EM pulses
that are used to manipulate the weather.

It is also said to be able to control the minds of people but there
is no proof of that, yet.

------------------------------------------------------------




You Are A Spirit Having A Human Experience!
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Grey
Galactic Member



Spain
646 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2010 :  08:54:46 AM  Show Profile Send Grey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the compliment H/A, I intend to do some research when I get some more free time, and thanks for the explanation of what a scaler weapon is.

I've heard about the mind-control thing before, but when I heard it was with microwaves.
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  09:46:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New 9/11 computer analysis provided by Richard D. Hall sheds
light on what most likely caused the damage to the World Trade
Centre towers. This 22 minute film provides answers to many questions.

You must be logged in to see this link.

------------------------------------------------------------




You Are A Spirit Having A Human Experience!
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Elrick
Galactic Member



USA
5831 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  2:38:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Elrick's Homepage Send Elrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice video H/A. If you happen to come across the video that is referenced (September Clues) please post it as well. I may have time to look tonight after work. Thanks for the link.



"Look at things right under your nose as if you've never seen them before....and then proceed from there."
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HumanAlien
Galactic Member



USA
3821 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2010 :  6:54:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit HumanAlien's Homepage Send HumanAlien a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Posted by skyarcher

September Clues part 1
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September Clues pt.2
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September Clues Pt.3
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September Clues part 4
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September Clues part 5
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September Clues 6
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Posted by RealTruthNetwork

SEPTEMBER CLUES - Part 7
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Posted by skyarcher

September Clues 8
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Posted by 5nach12

September Clues - Part 9
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Posted by AnarquicaMente

September Clues 10
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