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Rock
Galactic Member


Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  5:03:52 PM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello.

A while back on this forum I decried polluting a perfectly good UFO/OVNI site with a lot of political talk. I promised that I would not engage in such things in the future.

However, given that this is the American silly season in which they "elect" (LOL) their presidents, it is very hard to escape the political atmosphere that currently infects the air around the globe.

How so? Living in Brazil, what business is it of mine what the Americans do in their own yard?

In point of fact, the election of the American President no longer belongs to the American people. It is much too important an event to be left to such a demonstrably stupid electorate as exists in the United States (Arnold Schwartzenegger is Governor of California. Enough said.) Whoever becomes dictator in the United States this time around holds the fate of the entire world in his hands. So I do not think any American has any moral grounds for objecting if other people in the world have an opinion about the lunacy of the present American elections.

Let me just say this clearly: George W. Bush is a disaster. He is evil. He is a disgrace to the Human race. If the American public elects this man (they won't re-elect him since he has never been elected as President) they will be committing a criminal act and the rest of the world will be justified in punishing them in any and all appropriate manners.

Basic to seeing the truth of this requires obtaining a clear understanding of 9/11.

That is why I am proposing this topic on this forum. After all, this section is reserved for "conspiracy theories", and 9/11 as a conspiracy beats them all. It is even more mind-boggling than the web of lies and deceit that surrounded the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963.

So, to start the ball rolling, let me give you some web sites. Basic really. But PLEASE read them before you post static.

Perhaps we should start with an article on "the corruption of the republic" which goes some way in demonstrating WHY much of the world hates the United States, something that most Americans profess to be completely unable to understand:

You must be logged in to see this link.

Here is a generic site. I am only interested in the quotes at the bottom of the page, which I think should be drilled into the heads of every schoolchild on earth:

You must be logged in to see this link.

Then, there is the general outline of the entire context of 9/11:

You must be logged in to see this link. - please browse all the headings.

There is also this summary: You must be logged in to see this link.

These other sites are also interesting. Please read them before you flame me:

You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.

Once a person has studied the facts and the questions, they can hold an informed discussion. I submit that the present crises facing the human race is being concentrated into this political election, and it is the most important thing facing all of us at the present time, aliens or no aliens.



Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?

Edited by - Rock on 09/21/2004 5:09:57 PM

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USA
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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2004 :  11:44:43 AM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No comments?

I believe that most people who are interested in "Aliens and UFO's" fall into two categories (hey! Let's just start labeling people!): either they are looking for a thrill, something of entertainment value, like watching the movie "Aliens" or playing a video game; OR they are legitimately concerned with a question that has the potential of affecting the life and wellbeing of every person on this planet.

The first type of afficionado I think can be safely ignored. If someone wants to regard what is in fact a serious and important question as if it were a game to be played to relieve boredom, then their intellectual respectability level sinks to the appropriate level: that of a child.

For the others, who are exhibiting an adult concern for the state of the world, even if they manifest that concern by paying what might be called undue attention to a subject that many people simply shrug off as ludicrous, I propose that the subject of this topic, 9/11, is just as worthy of immediate attention as the question of life on other worlds, perhaps more so.

What is happening now is that the entire political and economic structure of this planet is being rapidly re-arranged by a relatively small group of men to conform to their agendas. The result will be suffering, want, unhappiness, pain and even death for many human beings on this world who are not part of that chosen group. I would call these "the common folks', and I presume that you and I are included among them.

It behooves all intelligent adults on this world to do whatever they can to become aware of what is even now happening. This may change nothing. Or, it may be instrumental in determining what this world will become in the near future. At the very least, it can be said with some certainty that if the majority of "the common folk" simply ignore the facts (such as 9/11) and make no effort to determine where the truth of the matter lies, then they will NOT have any influence on what this world becomes, and it will conform to the most extreme control-oriented fantasies of the men who even now are moving to seize the real sources of power.

There are those who say that it does not matter what label the administration of the American government -Democrat or Republican-carries. They are all the same.

Perhaps so. They may all have the same goals. Witness for instance John Kerry's implied continued endorsement of the invasion of Iraq. He still is talking about solutions, rather than disowning the entire shameful episode and withdrawing the troops. The men he represents are, in the final analysis, probably exactly the same men that George Bush represents. And those men want the American military inside Iraq.

On the other hand the style of the Democrats is definitely more humane (relatively speaking. After all the Clinton administration did use cluster bombs and Depleted Uranium on Kosovo). It is difficult to imagine any Democratic administration being as arrogant, blatantly dishonest (although dishonest in actuality is another matter) incompetent or religiously fanatical as Bush and the scum who surround him.

If we are going to be led by the nose into immoral acts, at least let it be by someone who maintains at least a facade of respectability. Not by a draft-dodging, cocaine-snorting, embezzling, lying, hypocritical, religiously-fanatic, stupid murderer.

And secretly, I do maintain the hope that if ANYONE but Bush were in the Oval Office things might improve a tad.

September 11 is the cornerstone of the Bush administration. It was such a blatantly horrible act that it demands explanation. But unless you buy Bush's peculiar explanation, in all it's fairly unbelievable ramifications, then there is simply no reason to support George W. Bush. And if, in investigating 9/11, you begin to ask questions, many of the answers which exist based on the facts not only should make you refuse to support Dubya, but should lead you to yell for his blood.

In point of fact there is no way in justice or fairness or the parameters of intelligent action that George W. Bush should be free and out of prison at the present time, let alone running for President.

I would like to discuss 9/11 on this site, simply because I recognize that there are some very conscientious, intelligent people who access here. This is certainly the proper time to do so, with the election coming up fairly rapidly. Of course the whole thing may be rigged (many think it is) and it does not matter what any of us think. Or, it may not be, as a sop to a democractic facade in the United States. You Americans on this site should be asking some hard questions about now, and I would hope this topic would assist you in making up your minds.

Or, then again, perhaps not. Perhaps nobody cares. Is that the case? Then I will just shut up, having said my piece anyway.

I know there are some regular posters on this site. But there are a whole bunch of members who COULD post but do not. It's easy. Just enter your site name and code, scroll down to the bottom of the topic, hit the "reply to topic" button, go to where there is a white box, write your comment, and hit the "post new reply" button. It's that simple.

Does anyone out there care about what happens to this planet?

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?

Edited by - Rock on 09/22/2004 11:49:16 AM
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USA_Capricorn_M7
Reptilian Member



USA
205 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2004 :  2:58:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit USA_Capricorn_M7's Homepage Send USA_Capricorn_M7 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Rock, how are you? I'm sorry I haven't been on, homework from school has been keeping me busy. And although I don't know very much about it, I'd like to make a comment. I don't know who was responsible for letting the Sept.11th attacks happen, but, I will say this. I do not like Bush and I do not like Kerry. If either is elected America will be a big diaster. The guy who made Farenheit 911 plans to put it out on video right before the voting begins. Since it is a big Anit-Bush thing, that might change some peoples minds. Also, they have even admitted that all Bush went to Iraq for was for oil and to finish what his dad started. Why anyone would want him for a president I don't know. I'm pretty sure that if he's elected again he'll start a war with Korea next. And Kerry seems like a lieing back-stabbing person so I wouldn't want him for president either. I would like a women to be the president, like Oprah or someone that actually knows what they are doing.

"If we expect the unexpected, then wouldn't the unexpected be expected?"
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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2004 :  4:40:19 PM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Cap. I can't complain (but since when has that stopped me?) How about yourself?

Yes, it would be nice if the United States had a system that allowed people to choose from a number of candidates. The system of the "primaries" is supposed to do that, but it doesn't, really. Out of over 300,000,000 people in the US are we supposed to believe that Kerry and Bush are the two most qualified men for the job so that all that remains is to choose between them?

What a joke.

I am reminded of the Humphrey-Nixon election in '68. What kind of choice was that? Two bodies, one soul. Shriveled. As I recall it was that election which got many people to wondering if there was in fact any choice at all in the United States, or whether the whole system was so rigged that it made no difference whether an individual voted or not.

The 2000 election was another, more blatant example. Even when the MAJORITY of the voters in the United States voted for Gore, they got Bush instead. So what's the use?

(By the way, that wasn't the first time that happened in the US. In the election of 1876 Samuel Tilden got more votes than Rutherford B. Hayes, yet Hayes became President).

But the problem is now that it is really coming down to the wire and people are starting to get a clearer picture of the "candidates" and realize that they clearly do not want to vote for EITHER of them, it is too late. They are stuck with one or the other. There is something very wrong with a 'system' like that.

I personally cannot say that I think Oprah would be a better president than George Bush, or even than the Easter Bunny.

How about Gollum from "The Lord of the Rings"? He would certainly be an improvement over Bush, and maybe even Kerry.

Or Brittany Spears? Gosh, she can move her butt, and isn't that what the Presidency is all about?

No, I am afraid America is stuck with either Bush or Kerry. It doesn't matter that no one wants EITHER of them.

Of the two, I would say ANYONE but Bush. If that means Kerry, then go with him.

Please read the websites I posted. They will give you a ton of information regarding 9/11 and incidentally why anyone in their right mind not only should not vote for Dubya, but should do everything they possibly can to remove him from office.

I seriously believe the fate of the world depends on this election. Everyone, not just you Americans, may not get another chance.

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?
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xanti
Galactic Member



United Kingdom
860 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2004 :  12:17:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit xanti's Homepage Send xanti a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In all likelihood, Bush will be re(ahem)-elected.

US citizens are faced with a precipice before and wolves behind...

Thanks for the links, Rock

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xanti
Galactic Member



United Kingdom
860 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2004 :  2:58:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit xanti's Homepage Send xanti a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found the '9 - 1 1 R e s e a r c h ' link you posted very informative. The doings of these 4 + NORAD surely begs explanation...
You must be logged in to see this link.

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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  07:39:36 AM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BESLAN

Before I start ranting, I want to say that I think Beslan was unspeakable. Murdering children for shadowy goals is despicable. Murdering them for ANY goals is despicable.
The people (whoever they are) responsible for that obscenity should suffer in ways that would make Abu Ghraib look like a tea party.

But that is the question, isn't it? Who is responsible for the massacre in Beslan?

9/11, by the ever growing evidence, was an event engineered by the Bush administration as an excuse to reach very questionable goals. And, to date, God help all of us, it has worked. The American public has not yet stormed the White House en masse, dragged Bush and Cheney out into the Rose Garden, hung, drawn and quartered them as they so richly deserve, and instituted the overthrow of the current government. Because they have not done this, it is evidence that there are sufficient morons in America, who still buy the fiction put out from the Bush Administration about 9/11,
to warrant the statement that the plot has succeeded.

This is shameful and all Americans should cower before God for their inaction. They are getting what they deserve.

But this success of 9/11 (because, believe-you-me, there is not a single government on Earth which does not know what Bush is pulling off here) has gotten other despotic regimes to thinking: 'Why can't WE have a version of 9/11 to use as an excuse for all sorts of underhanded acts?'

I do believe that most, or even all, these horrific acts of 'terrorism' that rather suddenly are occurring all over the world, are actually perpetrated by the governments which they affect. The world has learned from Bush. Nothing succeeds like success.

That bombing in Bali? So convenient for the despotic government of Australian Prime Minister John Howard, don't you think? What a glorious excuse to impose all sorts of restrictions and to explain what the Hell Australian troops are doing in Iraq. And recently another bomb in front of the Australian embassy in Indonesia. How lovely. Now honest John has proposed that Australia literally create an international police force (under the control of Australia, of course) which will roam OTHER countries, arresting people under Australian law, violating the national sovereignty of other peoples as a matter of course.

What a fine idea. Let's see if it flies. Then we can expect America to demand the same thing. Of course, the US is doing this already. The FBI is all over Mexico and Central America. The DEA is all over South America. Not to mention the CIA. But this is all supposed to be secret you see. If Honest John's proposal works, then the US could come out in the open as the Policeman of the world.

And how about that terrible train station bombing in Madrid? Spain was at that time, of course, a rabid backer of Bush and his crimes. The Madrid attack would have provided a strong excuse to explain what the Hell Spanish troops were doing in Iraq.

As it happened, that plan backfired and the Spanish people showed a laudable independence of thought by sending Aznar's party packing. Then Spain withdrew it's troops from Iraq (which predictably sparked a spate of nasty immature comments from the US).

But exactly how such a terrible act could have happened is still not explained. The Aznar government if it had remained would have benefitted from the act, whereas it is hard to see how Islamic militants could have predicted that the slaughter would have so influenced the upcoming Spanish election to Iraq's benefit.

Now we have Beslan. So convenient for Putin, yes? He is overreacting in the wrong areas of course. Because of Beslan he is now proposing that the central government have more power, and that the press and media in Russia return to their status as government mouthpieces. Clearly Vladimir has learned from Georgie boy.

I do believe that the horror in Beslan was thought up, planned, and executed by the Russian government, precisely to create the atmosphere of outrage and disgust that now exists.

Another of the bastard offspring of 9/11. Based on the lesson taught by the population of the United States that such acts cow the public and leave it open to stupid unquestioning acceptance of whatever idiotic lies the government wants to tell, we can certainly expect more of the same.

Britain has yet to experience it's very own 9/11. Wait for it.

Italy too.

What really bothers me is that because 9/11 has worked so well up till now for the Bush criminals, they certainly want to try it again.

When would be the best time for Bush?

Well, how about, ummm.... NOW?

Bush and Kerry, despite all the spin, are running neck and neck. Bush's ENTIRE message is "we are at war. Keep me on as commander in chief". Another attack on the US, more evidence that the evil Osama Bin Laden is still out there, could be very useful to stampede the stupid American electorate into voting for der Prezident.

(Of course, such an attack could also backfire, as it did in Spain. When you spook the cattle, it is difficult to predict which way they will run. People might actually think this time, and conclude a new attack shows that Bush is useless and cannot protect America. That, I think, is the only reason we have not yet seen 9/11, the sequel. The spin doctors are still debating whether to risk it.)

I do believe residents of all major American cities should be getting VERY nervous about now. I think it's time to take that vacation, at least until after the election.

What could it be this time? Several canisters of nerve gas opened on some subway system? A major public reservoir poisoned? How about one of those mini-nukes that the Bush people are always talking about? That seems to be a popular idea.

Beslan is the most horrific of all these events to date. Let's hope it's not a model for the future. So precise. So focussed. So little damage to the infrastructure. So much bang for the buck. Just kill innocent children. It's so easy.

You Brits might want to double-check the security arrangements at your child's school. Not that such caution could remedy this growing problem of government terrorism.

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?
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USA_Capricorn_M7
Reptilian Member



USA
205 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  3:18:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit USA_Capricorn_M7's Homepage Send USA_Capricorn_M7 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
QUOTE: "Out of over 300,000,000 people in the US are we supposed to believe that Kerry and Bush are the two most qualified men for the job so that all that remains is to choose between them?"

What a joke.


YEAH, NEITHER Bush nor Kerry is by far that great. Just because the both fought in a war makes them good enough? I hardly doubt it. As for Oprah, I really don't know, she just seems to know what she would do. BUT MY ONE CAT WOULD BE EVEN BETTER THAN THAT. LOL, but seriously I can't wait until elections are over just to see what backstabber or war-starter, I mean president, we are stuck with. But I can probably make a bet that Bush will have the world end by starting a nuclear war with korea, I can just feel it.

"MY NAME IS ALICE, AND I REMEMBER EVERYTHING...""--RESIDENT EVIL IS AN AWESOME GREAT MOVIE:--"

Edited by - USA_Capricorn_M7 on 09/24/2004 3:22:35 PM
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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  3:50:01 PM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George Bush never fought in a war. He hid from it. He is a coward.

I agree that your cat would make a better president than Bush. So would almost any major household appliance. So would a rotting tree stump.

At least Kerry doesn't claim he talks to God.

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?
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xanti
Galactic Member



United Kingdom
860 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  3:51:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit xanti's Homepage Send xanti a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beslan: the real international connection
You must be logged in to see this link.

Hi USA_C - it's good to meet another pair of eyes open...

Rock, the Beslan atrocities seem to have been so...pointless. However, there must be a reason - there is always a reason; no matter how unreasonably perverse it may appear to one in possession of a more refined mentality...

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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  4:32:28 PM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting article Xanti. Thank you.

I agree that the Beslan thing was senseless, like the Bali bombing, the Madrid railway station and 9/11. That could mean...

Wait a minute. Is there a pattern in this lack of pattern? Could all these be... gasp! ...political excuses? That's why they all look vaguely similar?

Is the Bear Catholic?

But the author of the piece on the site you supplied has bought into this "global jihad" nonsense. That mindless spin has burrowed deep into the journalistic psyche, it seems.

Yes, there were, at one time, Mujihadeen. They were funded and trained and armed by... by... the United States! (Wait. Can that be right?) They existed for the sole purpose of the war in Afghanistan to fight the Russians. Forget all this nonsense you hear about how they were meant to oppose rising Arab nationalism. The boys in Washington are incapable of such Byzantine logic. That would take intelligence, which is a commondity they obviously don't got.

And yes, after Afghanistan these trained mercenaries, who also happened to be Muslim, moved around a bit (as all mercenaries do) and fought here and there in some numbers.

That hardly adds up to a global Jihad.

A Jihad is a war waged for the religious purpose of defending Islam against the Infidel. It is a directed thing, and must be properly declared by the religious authorities. A bunch of mercenaries running around plying their trade are not "Jihadists" just because they happen to be Islamic. Neither is Osama Bin Laden qualified to declare "jihad".

This is, I think, important, because when people buy this "jihad" nonsense (as in 'the West is the target of Jihadists'), it implies that ALL Islamic peoples are hostile and senselessly at war with Western societies. This is not true. It is the West that is attacking Islam (because it happens to have a lot of Oil), not the other way around. As I am trying to point out with this topic, 9/11 was primarily a ploy used by the Bush regime, even if it might have reflected some wishful thinking on the part of Osama Bin Laden. It had it's roots in the West, not in Islam.

Yet the author of that article blythely went on and on about how the Jihad against the West seeks this, and how it seeks that, and he completely accepted that the Muslims WANT a religious war.

What garbage.

What they want is three hot meals a day and a roof that does not leak.

All this shameless spin trying to connect Beslan to the "global Jihad" is the most appalling stupidity. I sincerly doubt Osama Bin Laden had anything to do with the murder of those poor Russian kids. Vladimir Putin, on the other hand, had a lot to gain from such a scenario. And NOW he's trying to get in step with the myth that the United States has been selling since 9/11 because he thinks there might be some sort of advantage in it for him.

If people go along with this stuff they will be doing what Putin wants. That will mean that Beslan was a success. And THAT will mean it will be likely to be repeated. If it worked once... right?

Beslan and 9/11. What other horrors do the increasingly totalitarian regimes of the world - NOT the 'global Jihad' - have in store for us?

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?
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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2004 :  11:14:13 AM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BESLAN (continued)

I think that all aware adults should come face to face with what happened at Beslan, and what it means.

What does it mean? What possible meaning can be found in the senseless and cruel slaughter of innocent and defenseless children? (This is a question that might well be asked of the United States after it's armed forces riddle Afghan wedding parties full of children with bullets, or after it's Air Force drops cluster bombs with bomblets designed to look like toys on Iraqi cities).

What does it mean?

It means that this planet is insane.

Well, wow. What a revelation, right?

No, seriously, let's consider this. How can such behavior exist at all?

Or, to come at it from another angle: Human beings have long considered themselves to be "above" the other life forms inhabiting this world. Humans are the 'masters' of this planet. They possess 'intelligence'. They have 'souls'.

What does that mean? It should mean that Men and Woman can cooperate with each other for the common good. That they should govern their individual actions to prevent any occurences happening to others that they would not want to happen to themselves.

That is just common sense. It is hardly a radical proposition.

But what do we see throughout History? Violence. Lies. Greed. Sadism. Stupidity. Ignorance. Hatred.

These are so very common that everyone just seems to shrug and take them for granted.

And that is part of the problem.

Because intelligence should be that quality of mind that allows it's possessors to not only take in and process information to utilize it to achieve some end, it should also direct what ends are truly desirable.

Granted, there are many people on this planet who are not intelligent, and some of them are, let's admit it, downright stupid.

But there are others who are not dumb.

Indeed, if experience demonstrates anything, it is that most Humans are, in their private modes, kind, careing and thoughtful.

Yet, time after time, History has also shown us that when Humans get into large groups they act in the most beastial, mindless ways imaginable.

Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

Happiness is well within the grasp of the race as a whole. All it has to do is change it's mindset.

Stop this mindless reproduction and voluntarily, gradually, reduce the world population to a billion or so, so that everyone can have enough to eat and a comfortable place to sleep without worrying that they will ever lose these things.

Reduce the consumption of natural resources to a pace dictated by need, not by greed.

Stop worshiping competition as if it were some sort of God. Stop training children to regard 'sport' as a desirable way to look at life. Instead promote cooperation as the proper attitude to have, not just cooperation with 'your team', but cooperation with everyone, so that all become 'we', and there are no more 'them'. Promote self control, not self gratification. Support science and reason. Abandon religious superstition and the mindless promotion of myth and ignorance as tools to control populations.

These things could be begun tomorrow, today even.

Ultimately they would see the end of war and want and pollution and fear.

But no. How stupid of me to think these things are possible. Because this world IS JUST NOT LIKE THAT.

That is the point.

There is something basically wrong with this world. It is not just a matter of patience. "All developing, evolving worlds go through this sort of thing before they grow up. It's just normal. Wait, and things will work out."

No. They won't.

I believe it is not just adolescent blues that the Earth has been going though. I think it is really, truly ill. Mentally ill. The Human race is sick.

When someone is sick, if left untreated they may get better. Or they may not.

That is sort of the definition of illness, yes? It is not in and of itself just a passing phase, normal in everyone.

There is something subtly, deeply, pervasively wrong with this planet. How on Earth could anyone for even a fleeting moment consider doing anything that would make what happened at Beslan possible if Human beings were at root mentally healthy?

It's not just "Islam", or "the Terrorist mentality" or even the residual mental dross of "Communism" or that they were "Bad Guys" which made the people who killed those children do what they did.

To dismiss such behavior in that manner is to hide from the problem. It is too facile, and morally dishonest.

Because, whatever we tell ourselves in the dark, at night, the fact is I do believe that we all, all of us, deep in the dark recesses of our Human souls, are capable of the kind of horror that was perpetrated at Beslan.

"Oh NO!" you say. "Not me! I could NEVER do such a thing!"

Right. Just like not all people can be bought. Not everyone has their price.

Rubbish.

We are all linked. If one person can kill children without a thought, we all can. It is a Human failing. Pointing fingers and strutting around with a 'holier than thou' attitude is the worst way to approach the whole thing. We are all in some basic way participants in the Beslan horror.

And again, that is the problem.

This race of which we are all a part is literally insane. I know not why, or how to cure us, but it is clear that the Human condition is one strongly and persistently divorced from reality.

If there is a cure, the first step is to admit that there is a problem. To admit the possibility that we all are crazy.

Because, as sure as you are reading this, if no efforts are made to address this issue, it will kill us all, and this planet to boot.

This is a proper subject to address on a forum such as this. By considering aliens and the possibility of extraterrestrial contact a forum such as this must of needs take a wider view of reality. We are in a position to view the earth as a whole, not as a conglomeration of petty regions all competing with each other. And it is Humanity, as a whole, that must take stock of itself. Necessarily, such a grandiose ambition must have small beginnings. Each individual must consider the world and come to their own conclusions. Then, they can provide input to others who are still making up their minds.

Humanity, which means each of us, must ask what is the true meaning of Beslan. What is the real meaning of the American invasion of Iraq. What is the real meaning of Abu Ghraib.

Once we admit it to ourselves, that there is a problem, we can start to ask how we can fix the problem.

If we don't start doing that now, it does look like we are beginning to run out of time. Putting off such hard questions is no longer feasible.

And yes, I do think such ruminations are more to the point than speculations about alien anal probes.

PS: The following web site might interest you in regard to why people insist on being such idiots: You must be logged in to see this link.

Edited by - Rock on 09/27/2004 3:09:10 PM
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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2004 :  2:46:44 PM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, it seems like no one is interested in talking about 9/11.

Why not?

Has everyone made up their minds?

Has everyone accepted that 9/11 was an insidious plot hatched by Osama bin Laden and his evil Al Quaida network because "he hates our freedoms"? Has everyone accepted that the plot was able to succeed because the American intelligence community was somehow at fault? Has everyone accepted that Saddam Hussein and his terrible Iraqi regime was somehow linked to 9/11? Has everyone accepted that 9/11 somehow took George Bush and his administration by surprise through no fault of their own? Has everyone accepted that everything Bush has done since is fair and reasonable and logically calculated to protect the United States and destroy the threat of world Terrorism?

Does everyone on this forum really believe these things?

Then I have nothing more to say.

God help us all.

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?
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USA_Capricorn_M7
Reptilian Member



USA
205 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2004 :  3:17:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit USA_Capricorn_M7's Homepage Send USA_Capricorn_M7 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really? See, I knew Kerry fought in a war because all his buddies claim him a war hero, but I can't remember what Bush did, if anything. About 9/11, I know that it was a terrible plan made up be Bin Laden, but I think differently on the other things. I don't think Hussien was linked to the attacks, I think Bush just went there for oil and to finish what his dad started. And also, Bush has done nothing more than putting the country at a bigger risk of an attack. Sure the airlines are more safe, but that's it. Since Bush is getting into some wars he's making plenty of people hate him which would put us on a level of someone wanting to attack because of him.

"MY NAME IS ALICE, AND I REMEMBER EVERYTHING...""--RESIDENT EVIL IS AN AWESOME GREAT MOVIE:--"
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xanti
Galactic Member



United Kingdom
860 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2004 :  4:39:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit xanti's Homepage Send xanti a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the critique, Rock. Jihad is only permissible under direct attack, yes - and even then there are limits to acceptable defensive manoeuvres...

I appreciate how one might focus on the 'global Jihad' factor here, but the fact remains that the present troubles have roots that are decades old...born of seeds spread from far afield.

However, what we are faced with is a nasty bunch of professing humans who seek to act against humanity under the guise of religious &/or moral justification/s - some choose to call them Islamists and Liberators of Iraq...I call them terrorists - as I would do of any individual, group or nation that uses terror to further advance his/her/their cause/s. Unfortunately, this is a term that has also fallen victim to the 'mindless spin' of which you so rightly despair...The pre-emptive strike initiated by the coalition was prompted purely by economic & geo-strategic considerations. It was/is not a war on terror – it was/is an act of terror in itself! All forces at work herein that use coercion (of ANY kind, be it political, economic, military, militant or otherwise; even as subtly as subtle can be) must, by ideal definition, fall under the category of terrorist, ergo; anti-humanitarian.

In reference to your call for answers regarding 9/11; should I allow myself to amble freely through the imagination of sadistically surreal possibilities…

If it’s in one’s favour to drop the ball – one might…

If there’s a chance to pass the buck – one might…

‘Nuff said.


You state that we (humanity) are nothing but a collective adolescent…possibly sick beyond recovery – I would challenge that assumption…and though logic might dictate that we are all born with the same nature and so capable of all it might imagine, both dark & fair, I would offer the possibility that this is also an erroneous conclusion. One cannot deny the rivers of blood that flow still warm from the past and mingles with the present – but likewise – one might be unwise to deny the lights that have served to illuminate the path under darkness of night’s new moons, too.

There are monsters…there are angels, Rock.

Sincere respect
xanti




Edited by - xanti on 09/27/2004 6:02:58 PM
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Rock
Galactic Member



Brazil
576 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2004 :  7:37:31 PM  Show Profile Send Rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Cap, Hi Xanti:

Cap: that is one of the more disgusting things about Bush. He has never personally gone to war. Too dangerous. Instead, when it was his turn, his Daddy pulled some strings to keep him out. Other young men went to die in Dubya's place. That is why it is so amazing that he has the gall to pretend that he is some sort of great conquerer or something. He's nothing more than a coward and a liar.

Xanti: I'm sorry. I guess I didn't make what I was trying to say very clear. Yes, there are some wonderful individuals on this planet. But as a whole, as a species, Humanity has behaved, and is behaving, dismally. Like some sort of group of crazy monkeys. It does no good to protest that you, as a person, do not agree with the overall actions of the group. What we need is a basic reassessment of what is sanity, and what isn't. Why do people and their institutions behave this way?

Did you read the site I referred to? The fellow who wrote that book is of the opinion, oddly enough, that it is all the fault of some evil Aliens who are influencing Humanity. Just the opposite of the "Space Brothers" concept.

I don't buy that. I have seen too much. People are responsible for the horrors that they unleash, not Aliens. And I think it is vital at this point in History to make a concerted effort to analyse why governments and deluded individuals act these ways (killing and maiming and creating horror everywhere).

At least that might lead eventually to gaining a handle on such group behavior.

If we don't even make the effort, it doesn't take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Whoever said we could know anything, anyway?

Edited by - Rock on 09/27/2004 7:38:08 PM
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